Collective Shout responds to common pro- Fifty Shades arguments

Over the last few weeks, the campaign calling on supporters to boycott Fifty Shades of Grey and donate to a domestic violence shelter has escalated - and so too has the backlash from fans of the book series arguing that it was all just a bit of harmless, sexy fun.

We've prepared responses to some of the most common arguments we heard in support of the book series and film. 

"It's just fiction!"

Many Fifty Shades fans argue that it is just a book/film, a work of fiction, and as such the eroticized representations of violence against women have no power to influence thinking, attitudes or beliefs.

However, an analysis of the novel found sexual violence and emotional abuse were pervasive and the popular book series had the power to influence attitudes and beliefs surrounding intimate partner violence. The authors argued that “individuals regularly alter their real world beliefs and attitudes in response to fictional communication” and “stories are especially influential when readers become drawn into them and cognitive resources, emotions, and mental imagery faculties are engaged.” 

The authors noted in their conclusion "our analysis adds to a growing body of literature noting dangerous violence standards being perpetuated in popular culture." Read more

"It's so popular!"

Fifty Shades of Grey is popular in large part because of the misleading way the the trilogy has been promoted. It has been marketed as "romance" and "porn for women" and defended as "playful fantasy encouraging women to become more daring in their sexuality." If the story was promoted for what it is - a powerful sadistic man grooming a naive young woman for sexual violence and abuse - we doubt it would achieve the same success.  

The popularity of Fifty Shades’ means it has even greater potential to perpetuate and reinforce damaging attitudes about abusive relationships.   

Throughout history many there are many examples of oppression, violence and injustice that were popular or socially accepted in their time, but are now strongly rejected. Read more

"But he loves her so much!"

To accept this argument would be to believe that stalking, possessiveness, manipulation, jealousy, control and other elements of intimate partner violence are based in love - that abusive men hurt their female partners because they ‘love them so much’.

Perpetrators themselves like to say they acted out of love. This is false.  Read more

"It's not domestic violence- he never hits her!"

There are incidents where Christian does hit Ana, such as when he slaps her during sex, when he puts her over his knee and spanks her backside as punishment for perceived acts of defiance (such as rolling her eyes.) When violence is sexualized it is made to be invisible, and we are supposed to accept it without question.

It is a myth that domestic violence is limited to hitting and punching. Abusive behaviours include making threats, manipulation, intimidation, uncontrollable anger, possessiveness, controlling, withholding money, isolation, humiliation, stalking and sexual violence.  Grey’s treatment of Anastasia outside of the bedroom is just as much a cause for concern.

"But it's not an abusive relationship!"

Some fans of the book continue to suggest those critical of the themes and messages throughout need to ‘get their facts straight’. The assertion that domestic violence workers and psychologists analysing the novel ‘just don’t understand’ defies logic. 

Unfortunately, a significant number of women are victims of domestic violence or sexual violence. Many women have come forward, distressed that the abuse they endured could be framed as erotic or as a love story. Some individuals cannot recognize domestic violence in Fifty Shades which should not surprise us considering many people do not recognise the nature or prevalence of domestic violence in our culture. 

It would appear filmmakers took deliberate steps to portray the relationship as more consensual and less abusive, adding in romantic scenes that did not appear in the book, and leaving out some of the more extreme scenes from the books.

"If she didn't like it she could just leave"

This is a common myth in domestic violence situations- that if a battered woman does not leave her violent male partner, it is assumed she consents to abuse and violence or that she secretly likes it.

Many abused women experience confusion and may not recognize what has been done to them as abuse. Often they still love their partner or believe he will change. Others believe they must have contributed to the abuse or that it is their fault. Many others want to leave but live in fear of their abuser, believing he will kill them if they do, and tragically, many domestic violence murders occur after the woman has already left and the man has lost control of her.

The notion that it is women who are victimized who should change rather than the men who terrorise and abuse them is misguided and an example of victim blaming. 

There are occasions in the books and at the end of the film, where Ana does not like Christian’s treatment of her, and she expresses this.

"But he was abused himself"

Many abusers have histories of being victims themselves. This does not justify perpetuating violence or abuse against another person. There are many more survivors of abuse that never harm another person.

"But the violence is consensual"

Psychologists and researchers have dismissed such claims, arguing that behaviours exhibited by Grey are consistent with those present in intimate partner violence. Even the BDSM community rejects the notion that Fifty Shades depicts consensual BDSM, with many citing a lack of consent and condemning it as an abusive relationship.

"Anastasia has one reason only to want to sign this: It’s because she wants Christian, and hopes that this is the way to have him…Indeed, Anastasia makes clear on countless occasions that she wants to have a “normal” relationship where they go on dates and sleep in the same bed, something he refuses to do; and Christian repeatedly tells her that the only way to be with him is to sign the contract agreeing to things she doesn’t want to do.” -Salon article 50 Shades” of coercive sex: The movie is even worse than the book.

There is certainly enough coercion, intimidation, threats and stalking in the book/film to cause alarm, even without a debate on BDSM as a sexual practice.

"Some women just like violent sex"

The idea that Anastasia simply enjoys violent sex, or that she is embracing her sexuality, is based on the false assertion that she is calling the shots, or that she is anything other than a naïve, virginal young woman complying with Christian’s demands. As Gail Dines argues, "Missing from this hype, of course, is a detailed discussion of how the books eroticise violence against women and render invisible the predatory tactics the “hero” uses to groom, seduce and abuse a much younger woman.”

Kourtney Mitchell, author of There Are No Grey Areas In Ending Violence Against Women, writes, "We have to ask ourselves the obvious question: what does it mean to inundate the dominant culture with the elements of violence, sell it to us as desirable under the capitalist paradigm, and still claim to be contributing to the empowerment of women?”

"But he changes in the end"

This is perhaps one of the most dangerous and misleading messages from the book series- that if victims of violence and abuse stick around, they can ‘heal’ the abuser if they love them enough. This notion is not based in fact, as in reality the violence tends to escalate over time. As sociologist Gail Dines said, “Battered women's shelters and graveyards are full of women who had the misfortune to meet a Christian Grey.”

"You're judging other people's sex lives"

This intention of this campaign is critiquing the dominant message in the books and film that violence is sexy and desirable, that stalking, emotional abuse and sexual violence are representative of love and romance rather than intimate partner abuse.

"You are just prudes who hate sex"

This is what defenders of 50 Shades of Grey have said to those who object to the series and its message. It is the same thing we have heard over and over from men defending pornography. 

To modify a phrase from anti porn campaigner One Angry Girl - "comparing porn and 50 Shades of Grey to sex is like hitting someone in the head with a frying pan and calling it cooking."

Sexual exploitation, pornography, violence and abuse are not the same as sex. 

"If you don't like it don't watch it!"

Women don’t have to actively participate in media that romanticises and normalises violence against women, but it is increasingly difficult to avoid the film or its message.

The film has been aggressively marketed via a number of advertising mediums, including outdoor advertising and billions have been poured into merchandising the brand. Charity organisations including a preschool and anti violence organisation were set to use the film as a fundraiser before cancelling at the last minute. It has also been reported that a middle school in the US is investigating how their school students were given a 50 Shades 'find a word' puzzle featuring explicit sexual terms from the story.  

Fifty Shades is a massively popular cultural phenomenon, perpetuating and reinforcing harmful attitudes about violence against women. Women cannot simply opt out of a culture that exploits or harms them.  

The argument ‘if you don’t like the film don’t watch it’ makes as much sense as arguing "if you don't like air pollution don't breathe." 

"This is censorship!"

Raising awareness of the film and domestic violence is not censorship, nor is calling for a boycott.  

It is important to expose the harmful messages and intimate partner violence themes in Fifty Shades of Grey, particularly in a culture where one woman is murdered every week by her current or former partner. 

We are calling on the community to see Fifty Shades for what it is, a film glorifying abuse of women, and asking them to consider whether this is something they want to financially support. 




There Are No Grey Areas in Ending Violence Against Women- Veterans For Peace

"Double Crap!" Abuse and Harmed Identity in Fifty Shades of Grey- Journal of Women's Health

Sadistic abuse is not romantic- Melinda Tankard Reist

Don't let Fifty Shades of Grey ruin your Valentines weekend- Gail Dines

Australians still trivialise and excuse violence against women- The Conversation

Don't be fooled by Fifty Shades of Grey- Christian Grey is no heartthrob- The Guardian

One Angry Girl Anti-Porn Resource Centre


Showing 16 reactions

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  • commented 2015-06-09 12:50:17 +1000
    Fifty shades is not a ‘fiction’, it is a fantasy. A fantasy for ‘submissive’ women in the bdsm community who enjoy imagining they are being raped when they role-play with ‘dominant’ partners. I don’t think this movie should have been made or marketed for the general public. It’s an erotic fiction that fulfils the needs for a relatively small community, and I’m not surprised it’s been so deeply misunderstood.

    Fifty shades does NOT show a consensual relationship. But it’s not supposed to. It’s BDSM erotica, and its entire purpose is to help submissive women achieve orgasm, as literally and bluntly as that is. As such, it doesn’t depict ‘real life’ BDSM. It depicts a BDSM fantasy. It’s basically porn. You know that whole ‘porn isn’t realistic, there’s an epidemic of men who try to apply porn stereotypes to real life and it fails miserably.’ Just because a significant amount of women fantasise about being dominated and sexually abused in some way, doesn’t mean they actually want it in real life. Subs know that this is just a kinky fantasy and in real life they would NOT find rape sexy. But they do get off on erotic movies and books which glamorise it. The REAL problem with this movie is it’s not entirely clear, particularly because this is one of the first times bdsm has really been made the whole theme of a movie, and people don’t know how to take it. I really don’t think this movie should have been made for the general public because it doesn’t serve the needs of the general public and it desperately requires viewers be educated first that this is just erotic fantasy. Otherwise this^^ sort of shit happens. It’s like if a porno became published as a movie, and feminists started critiquing how ‘its not realistic that women will fuck the pizza guy when he delivers her ’extra sausage’ pizza’. Duh. It’s not meant to be. This whole thing is ridiculous in so many ways.
  • commented 2015-03-07 10:13:59 +1100
    “He was abused as a child” is an explanation for what Christian does. Not an excuse. Chrisitan has unlimited resources- he can go see a therapist. Actually, let me rephrase that: he can go see a therapist who DOESN’T think that the best way to “heal” someone is to give him everything he demands unconditionally. If he’s still incapable to change, then he is a danger to society and must be forcibly treated until he does change.
    Besides, if you don’t like what is written here… why are you commenting here in the first place? You are criticizing this site. It’s your right to do so. But so is the right of everyone else to criticize 50 Shades.

    I don’t say “Don’t you dare enjoying 50 Shades, the dub-con erotic fiction where an angry man is cured by the love of a woman”. If someone says that cookies taste awful, too bad for them, I like them, I still eat them. Them hating those cookies has no effect on my enjoyment of cookies.
    But 50 Shades is marketed as “What every woman wants”. There is an entire line of 50 Shades sex toys. ELJ herself has said that “millions” of women have used 50 Shades to imporve their sex lives. She wants her cake and eat it- she says that it’s what women should aspire to, then she uses the “It’s just fiction!” excuse.
    Nope. You don’t get to say that you care for DV survivors and then, when one of them tries to raise the question of abuse in 50 Shades, blocks them or sends gifs of a book being thrown at a face.
  • commented 2015-03-01 03:03:26 +1100
    Melinda, Your gentleness and patience with your answers are admirable. This is a topic that is running through the lens of high anxiety. I appreciate what you are trying to do. But there are some people who can be very abusive on these sites. At least you are taking them off. I realize it is an almost impossible task. Thank you for your work. Even when I disagree with folks, I try to learn from them. Once of the perks of being old and realizing I don’t know all I thought I did. At any rate, I do agree that this is violence and porn and a disturbing trend in relaxing rating standards in order to accommodate a public obsessed with the idea that sex = love, period, and that abuse has one face – that of a black eye and broken bones. Sigh….

    On the other hand, for those who are not fans of the Grey guy, Ms. James is refusing to make the next movie unless she has control, total control – how very Grey of her. The problem with that is she wants more explicit – in fact all the explicit sexual scenes acted out on screen. The original director has said that she toned the sex scenes down in order to secure an R rating, otherwise it would have been X and classified as porn. This is on record. If someone does not believe me, go look it up. So even the Hollywood folks know they are walking a very blurred line here. I don’t think it will come to being made. James actually wants Dornan and Johnson having sex and oral sex on the screen – the two actors. That constitutes pornography. Since Dornan’s wife absolutely refused to see the first movie, I somehow think that will be a point of disagreement there. Also Johnson’s mother does not want to see “that” as she put it on the red carpet in front of millions of people.

    Still, this is what the fans came for and didn’t get the first time round, hence a lot of angry, frustrated women. Those reviews are on-line too. James is concerned she will lose her fans if next time round she does not get the “total package” as it were to the theaters. Universal says they are in discussions but so far there is a stalemate, especially since the director and screen writers have walked. By most lights in the authentic artistic world, James cannot write her way out of a paper bag. So who will do the screenwriting. James thinks she can. The UK and Europe are not about to relax their standards either. But she can still make a porn film that will be available on-line and in adult book stores, for those who just cannot get enough Grey in their lives.

    Again, I am praying that Melissa is right. This is just a movie with minimal impact. I personally believe it is for folks who can only define themselves or live for their next orgasm and will overlook anything, lie to themselves and take on those who oppose them in search of a few seconds of what the French call, “the mini-death.” But history has shown that the arts a culture supports tend to reflect its values. That is the worrisome part for many, many, many women and men in this country right now.

    Many of my friends have asked me why I follow this so closely. I tell them that I also try very hard to keep up on the latest developments in the cure for cancer. In my opinion, this impacts us all. As I say, some cannot see past their next titillation and sexual satisfaction. But millions are concerned that we find a cure for whatever it is that makes Grey such a phenomenon to begin with. There my friends may lie the problem.
  • commented 2015-02-28 16:24:40 +1100

    There are hundreds of comments on that page, we have deleted many abusive comments and blocked many users making these comments, but it has been virtually impossible to keep up with all of them. There are limitations to how much time we can devote to this. We could spend hours moderating the page only to come back and find new users posting abusive comments. As time allows we do go through and remove those that persist with this behaviour. Individual users also have the option of reporting abusive comments, which assists us in identifying the problem.

    We have addressed the issue you’ve raised once again in the article above. Having been abused as a child does not excuse intimate partner violence. The belief that women can ‘heal’ men is a myth. Anyone perpetrating violence needs to take responsibility for their own behaviour and seek help for any underlying issues that may cause it.

    It is not surprising to us that men are using 50 Shades of Grey as a defence for abuse. This is an example of media perpetuating attitudes about violence against women in our culture. The men who committed abuse and used fsog as a defence did this because of the messages perpetuated by fsog and likely other forms of pornography. I doubt these men have read our website, if they had their harmful views about women would have been challenged, not reinforced.
  • commented 2015-02-28 15:27:17 +1100
    You mean your bias opinion on the book/movie… You treat women like we are a weak species more then half the population agree there is no violence in the movie … The fans will fight you all the way like your fighting your beliefs all the way which we are both entitled to do
    I have stated more then once and has been blown off on every occasion shouldn’t you be looking more at the effects of child abuse and how it effects children later on in life and that there should be more help in children with a bad start to life but no it’s straight back to Christian and Ana who agree to there sexual acts
    I also had people being abusive to me about my thoughts but yet they are allowed to comment because they agree with you all and that’s ok but the punishment should be put to them as well
    Yes it was brought out on 12 February close to valentines and yes they romanced it but that is because most of us do find it as a love story
    I just think you all are taking this movie way to far and it sites like these that make these pigs that go out and hurt women and be able to use Fsog as excuse because you have already said it would happen that is no excuse what so ever to hurt a women no is no I would be more inclined to say that these people need help that they think it’s ok to hurt anyone over a fiction book/movie
  • commented 2015-02-28 05:01:46 +1100
    Thanks Melinda. I was on one feed where people were so disrespectful that I began to escalate in my own aggression. Whoa. I don’t want to disrespect anyone for any reason. I am a published author, blogger and award-winning writer. I have seen excepts from this book. I found it poorly written and could not continue past the technical merits or lack thereof. From an artistic point of view, I don’t care what the work is saying, if I cannot get through the poor technique, I am unable to give it a shot in terms of its message. When I have been called on that I tell people that I am an award-winning author with an MA in creative writing and dance, from one of the top universities in the US. I have several publications under my belt and have the credentials to speak from a technical viewpoint. Still I have been hit with the same aggressive points about being a this or being a that – old white, feminist, vanilla chick was probably the best.

    I also have relied on the reviews by other, more prominent, artistic critics as well as making up my mind not to see the movie by seeing the trailers. I don’t drive every car on the lot before deciding on a purchase. I read Consumer Report, and rely on the opinions, good and bad assessments, of other drivers. I don’t personally know or even remotely know everything about every political candidate on the ballot when I vote. That does not make me an invalid voter. It just means I do the best I can to make my choices based on information available to me. People forget we are in America and have a right to voice our opinions, pro or con, to theirs and to popular opinions of the day.

    One final point and then I really must dash as I am under deadline for my own artistic endeavors. For those who try to put people down as being feminists, I would like to remind them that there are good and bad things about this political posture. There are good and bad cops, priests, teachers and artists. The feminist movement, which began long before most of the people on this post were even on this planet, has done a lot of good. There also have been extremists, as with everything, who have hurt the cause.

    But ladies, please take a moment to realize that without the feminist movement 50-60 years ago, many of you would not be enjoying the liberties you have today. It is like the kids who refuse to stand and salute the flag until they see a soldier in a wheelchair who paid a price for their freedom to disrespect the flag. They are clueless until they see the battle scars. My generation paid a high price so women no longer have to trade on their backs. Our cries are against a movie/book that makes personal worth once again based on the sexual objectification of both genders. Grey is a sexual object here as well girls. I seriously doubt women are fantasizing over his jet or penthouse.

    Our cries are our battle scars too. And when people categorically criticize the feminist movement, they put down many (men and women) who fought a war so we have the choices we have today. Make your choices by all means – but please do not slap those in the face who authored the right to make those choices. I mean no disrespect. I am just hoping that we can return to sane dialogue and not personal insults based on age, sexual preferences, or political postures. We will see who agrees with me or not.

    Laura L. Padgett,
    Author/Speaker and Dancer
  • commented 2015-02-28 03:31:34 +1100
    Hi Laura,

    No worries about multiple comments, I can delete the second one if you like and leave the first and third one. Good observations about the fan reactions to rumours about actors. The fan reactions online have been very intense.

    The online hostility is exhausting. I enjoy discussion and debate and its been great when people share their thoughts respectfully. It leads to more clarity, sometimes one or both people change their views (or maybe their wording – sometimes disagreements come down to misunderstanding) or sometimes both parties stick with their views but can move on.
  • commented 2015-02-28 02:58:33 +1100
    Sorry I have posted more than once. I realized I had not said all I wanted to and then could not delete or edit the post. Sorry folks. I meant to say that fans themselves are disproving this theory of “just a book” by hysterical reactions to the possibly that Dornan would not be returning. I don’t know if that proved to be true or not. But if people are so upset about an actor not returning and the threat that the next movies in this sequel will not be made, that they have these kinds of reactions, it is hard to see it as just a work of fiction. Like most artists, I realize that art has an impact, hopefully. That is why we create our art. I do want to honor those who see this different ways. But the amount of aggression and unkindness I am seeing on many feeds dealing with this controversial subject perhaps is the real issue. What a fascinating study it would be to see if indeed, the great Stephen Hawking is right in saying we don’t need to worry about the next Ebola or the next nuclear bomb or even ISIS for that matter. We are destroying ourselves with disrespectful aggression. So sad when people cannot disagree without calling others’ opinions a “joke or a load of hog wash.” Yet the very type of aggression, feminist or not, is apparent in some of the posts. that we are on the road to proving Dr. Hawking’s point.
  • commented 2015-02-28 02:22:59 +1100
    If this is just a book or a story, why did so many people take to Twitter in agony when the rumor when out that Dornan was not going to play Grey? Some threatened to kill themselves. How can we say this has no impact and then see those kinds of comments? You can’t have it both ways. This movie impacts people, like all other movies. So if you don’t agree that it is domestic violence and sexual violence, fine. But don’t discount those of us who believe it is and are worried about the message it is sending because, “it is just a book.” The fans have just disproven that it is more than a book. It is a craze and by some lights a very scary one.
  • commented 2015-02-28 02:16:15 +1100

    A boycott is voluntary by definition, you are welcome to boycott whatever you like, including this website. You are under no obligation to participate in the #50dollarsnot50shades campaign. We have shared information about the impact of media on our culture and how a film like 50 Shades of Grey (FSOG) has the potential to reinforce harmful attitudes about violence against women. It is up to each individual what they do with this information – they may choose to boycott the film, or not.

    I am one of the page moderators for Collective Shout’s Facebook page and I want to address your claim that you were “part of Collective Shout’s site” and that you were blocked from the page for writing comments that “didn’t agree with what collective shout wrote.”

    You had little to no knowledge of Collective Shout before posting dozens of comments about FSOG. You stated that you went back through our posts to 2010 to conclude that you “think this site is a feminist site” and we can “stick with womens rights and boring sex.” You were not banned from writing comments that didn’t agree with Collective Shout’s position, you were blocked from the page for comments like this – repetitive, hostile comments, which included calling people ‘stupid’ and making inappropriate comments about other people’s sex lives. Others who appeared to be your family members joined you in this activity and were blocked from the page for similar behaviour.

    This behaviour is not going to continue here. You have made your opposition to this campaign and our organisation known. Continuing to discuss this with you – or moderate discussions you may have with others – is not the best use of my time or yours. The article above states our position clearly and thoroughly. If you have any other questions please feel free to re-read the article.
  • commented 2015-02-27 22:06:13 +1100
    Hi Melissa, I just wanted to add something regarding the point you made about how there are many movies that contain worse depictions of domestic violence. For me, the problem with FSOG is that it has been powerfully marketed as a romance/chick-flick (had a big Valentine’s Day launch). No one is suggesting that the world censors all depictions of domestic violence in films or other artistic mediums – many do explore this deeply important issue in nuanced and very different ways that may indeed challenge audiences to think again and explore the issue more deeply for themselves. This is absolutely not the case with FSOG – it trivialises abuse through it’s romanticism (even if you take out the sex scenes – the relationship is frighteningly abusive, predatory and manipulative as Caitlin has explained above) and sends some dangerously confusing messages to women and men about intimate relationships. It is my hope that the conversation around this film serves to encourage as many people as possible to be discerning when it comes to all kinds of media and evaluate it for themselves. It’s easy to swallow the very well funded marketing hype and jump to angry conclusions that anyone who isn’t a fan and wants to look critically and discuss the issues it raises is automatically trying to be controlling or “telling woman what to want”. Allowing people to speak out about the troubling aspects of this wildly popular film is incredibly important, even if you don’t agree. Thanks to Caitlin for gathering together this FAQ list – it will be so helpful to point people to when questions arise :)
  • commented 2015-02-27 19:54:52 +1100
    This sites issue is about the way Christian treats Ana and as I said before shouldn’t it be about the child that was abused and how an abused child can end up broken at as adult not wanting to be touched not wanting to be in a so called normal relationship
    i was a part of collective shout site but was banned from writting comments because I dint agree with what collective shout write…. I personally think any strong women with a back bone should boycott this site as your slandering a fiction book and they need to get a hold on reality …if someone went out looking for christian grey or thought they could have this relationship I woild say seek medical advice as its a fiction story … I would like to be elsa out of frozen but its never going to happen is it
  • commented 2015-02-27 19:29:33 +1100
    Perhaps you missed this section Melissa:

    “But he was abused himself”

    And this section:

    “It’s just fiction”.
  • commented 2015-02-27 19:22:21 +1100
    I did and as I said its a feminst group never once have they spoken about the abuse he received as a child or as a teeager and how trauma can effects someones life they only talk about the fiction character Ana again feminst group only seeing one side of the fiction story …. there is so many movies with more in it for example once were warriors …a women beaten on a daily basis alchol abuse a child raped by a family friend … this article is a joke
  • commented 2015-02-27 18:33:43 +1100
    Melissa, maybe you should actually read the article. It addresses every argument you just made.
  • commented 2015-02-27 16:54:21 +1100
    What a load of hog wash let’s boycott every movie made then… Your a feminist group yet your trying to control what women want and think it’s a fiction book (go find what fiction means ) end of story get over yourself… I blame article like this and media you are the ones that give people the excuse to use Fsog as excuse if they hurt someone during sexual acts… for example the guy the other day that tied and raped a women and used the movie as an excuse I’m sorry that should not of even hit public that should not been used as excuse and if you or anyone else think that is ok to be used as excuse you all need help anyone in the right frame of mind knows he has done what he has because he is pig and thinks he can get away with by using Fsog …

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